Urban Survival???

Discussion in 'The Hangout' started by TexDanm, May 20, 2019.

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  1. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    But hey, maybe that could be put to use.

    Get your crew together and make party plans. Start the generator or BBQ grill (wondrous smell) or chainsaw or ... . Wait for the unwelcome guests. When they arrive, open up on them. Hang their bodies where their cohort can view their own future should they follow in the path of those who came before. With motors and strings and pulleys and things, you can make the bodies wave "hello".
     
  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Urban survival is possible but you do have to have different skill sets and different survival plans. Even without electricity, there will be plenty of stored water. There will be tons (literally) of stored materials to build great green houses. Super secure small storage spaces to hide -- lock up / cached supplies. Thousands of solar panels to scavenge. Look back at all the past riots and the stores that presented armed defenders, were left alone. 99.9% of the city population will be unarmed or very poorly armed. Planning, skill set, preparation and a bit of luck, and your chances are just as good as the next prepper.
     
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  3. The Innkeeper

    The Innkeeper Master Survivalist
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    Absolutely vital info, safety first. Cables can kill or maim.
     
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  4. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    http://mtnscoutsurvival.com/class.php?class=794

    Good morning all,

    The above link tells of an urban survival course presented in the Central Park, New York City area. I post this to establish that our urban compatriots are not lost. Efforts are being made.

    A couple of years ago I helped rewrite a high-rise condo associations emergency manual. The building was in a large West Coast city.

    If you look at a map of a large US metro area - eg New York City or San Francisco and environs, you'll notice that JFK airport is next to Jamaica Bay. It takes skills, practice and experience to handle this area. Jamaica Bay is no Rockefeller Center.

    I live in a rural - but not remote - county. There is no question that urban areas are the most difficult to deal with concerning our subject-matter. Yet, it is not pure population density; it is the probability of disease typically found in concentrated population areas. Think of cruise ships and their gastro-intestinal mass infections. Again; my quote "not pure population density". A rural area with a busy road ... think of the Katy Freeway parking lot Houston, Texas area, the bridge-tunnel road connection between Virginia Beach and Salisbury, Maryland (Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel [When tolls eliminated for an emergency, anticipate traffic congestion]), ... Humans are vectors of disease and germs.

    Here is the funny part: it's not really funny; just gallows humor ...... Some urban dwellers are more prepared for SHTF than MOST of my rural county's population !

    Prep, prep, prep.

    Rinse or flea dip, then ...

    prep,prep, prep.
     
  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    agreed, if someone knows what their doing, like yourself, but for most "urban survival" is a misnomer.
     
  6. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Legendary Survivalist
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    If what they were saying is true I was very pleasantly surprised to see the things New York City had put in place to improve their disaster preparedness including: methods to get people out of subways and elevators, lists of people living in high rise locations that would need assistance in exiting their location. Maybe some people do live and learn when disaster strikes.
     
  7. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Hydraulic elevator (3 floors or less) can be lowered to the bottom floor, without electricity. The doors can be opened (with the proper skill and tools) without electricity, no pry bars required. Every multi story building has stored potable water, waiting to be tapped, again, no electricity needed. Just about every non-residential building has water stored suitable for irrigation and sanitation needs. In an urban environment, water and shelter is not a problem, food is what you will have to have stored for the early months, until you can get setup. NOTE: urban folks cannot survive staying in their homes, they are going to have to relocate into a commercial building. Residential houses are not defensible long term and the the land mass is too small for long term garden production. All the different types of locations require different plans and skill sets. Isolation, rural, urban, are not the same and all are viable, IF properly planned out and prepped for. JM2C
     
  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I don't think so, Tactical. We usually see eye to eye.

    When mass-psychology kicks in, that's it. You do not want to be anywhere near a herd of people who are untethered to rationality. I'm biased. I've worked with patients w/psychoses. My dad's "business associates" used to keep the corrupt cops (most cops back then) greased.

    I believe that establishing a protectable perimeter will be next to impossible in places of high-density population.

    Then there's the matter of police or FEMA coming in, ripping off your jaw, and taking a dump down your throat. Look what the goons did in New Orleans after Katrina. They disarmed the civilized and left the gang-bangers alone. In New Orleans, a certain segment of the police force broke into a Ford dealership, drove SUVs to SAM stores and WalMarts and looted the places using their newly acquired SUVs to haul the booty back to their own cribs.

    I am like 100 / 100+ miles away from major urban areas. My sense is that I am WAYYYYY too close. Really, it's one reason that I want to return to my home region -- so that I will be hundreds (plural) of miles away from such infectious boils.
     
  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Yes, Old Geezer we do normally see eye to eye. In a national grid down event or any other national disaster level event, there will not be any FEMA, Police, fire Department or any other functioning government agencies. The military may exist in some form but it will be just as likely to be warlord faction vs. a government operation. Now based on logistics (food and supplies ) --- Do you as the leader of a pillage and plunder group, stay in or around the cities or do your head out to where there could be food and supplies? Thugs / war lords can't and won't grow their own food, The folks in the cites will not know how to grow food for themselves, much less enough for the villains. So the nasty folks, along with all the still living sheeple will be vacating the cities and headed out to where ever they THINK there will be food. Those that have hunkered down and who may have eliminated trespassing neighbors, will be left with everything they need to survive and prosper, except food. The survivors will have had to store away enough food to hold them over until they can get in a crop or two. Mother Nature hates a void and as the people die off or run off or simply disappear, the critters will start moving back into the cities. There will be meat, cats, dogs, squirrels, birds and eventually coyotes and maybe deer. People (prepping survivors) can fill warehouses with raised beds gardens, protected from weather and prying eyes. Shelter and a food source, without having to expose themselves.

    Now as for defensible perimeters, There is no such animal in a SHTF event. Only places deemed to costly to attack will be partially safe. Rural locations are easy to attack. They require folks to be out in the open to tend to crops or critters. Major castles were taken by siege, simply by starving the folks out. If your location is determined to be a required position by the attacking villains, it can be taken. High ground, fields of fire all can work against the defender, as well as the attackers. Bottom line, there are no absolutely safe places. We will all plan and then toss the dice.
     
  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Urban areas are already lost. Get out, now!

    It's NOT just the poor areas. Swank areas, even gated communities, are seeing robberies.









    --------------------------

    "Teenagers" shut down an armed forces weekend carnival

    "Tinley Park police cancel carnival after flash mob involving 400 teens"



    upload_2023-9-14_19-20-47.png
     
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    Urban areas are not survivable...period.
     
    1. Old Geezer
      I used to think some cities could make it, but nope, not anymore.

      Cities in America's Breadbasket are now rife with crime and idiocy. The ones with some sense of morals have become utterly dependent on technology. Pull the electricity and you'll pull the rug out from underneath them.

      Post SHTF, people will abandon the cities, but that will be chaos writ large. Who in their right mind would want to be a part of that?! Panicked mobs -- I want to be hundreds of miles away from that.
      .
       
      Old Geezer, Sep 15, 2023
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  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    the collapse of the electrical grid will be the last straw for most people, without electricity many people will not be able to survive, most have to learn to live without electricity but that takes time, experience and skills which most dont have.
    many say " if its going to be that bad I dont want to survive" and they wont.
    very few even know how to survive, I'm not talking a few days or a week in the woods, or sitting at home until things get back to normal, I'm talking about long term into the future.
     
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  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    Every city is an artificial construct, cities formed as people came together to conduct business, participate in social interaction, benefit from efficiencies in public services- schools, sewers, water etc.-YET CITIES CANNOT SURVIVE ALONE-they need resources from the outside, notably food and water, the average needed for food dictates no city could feed itself.
    in the world today there are more than 20 cities with populations of over 10+ million and that will only increase.
     
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  14. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    Certainly if one looks at a city like London, one can see that it is wholly dependent on external influences. Clearly enough food cannot be grown within the city to feed the population (actually that has been the case with London for centuries, animals were driven into the city of butchering back as far as mediaeval times). During WW2 parks and gardens were turned over to food growing but, even the, vast quantities of food had to be brought in from the surrounding countryside.

    As food, water and shelter are the essential needs for humans I would suggest that a SHTF scenario that affected London would not be survivable for the majority of its population.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2023
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  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    not just London, places like Birmingham and Manchester too.
    even a place like Plymouth with 250,000 + residents could not feed itself .
    its just not possible for any city to feed itself, the logistics make it impossible.
    not without a reduction in the population.
    the entire UK is not self sufficient so how can a city be?
     
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    in a SHTF situation growing food commercially will be seriously curtailed, if not impossible, without imports of Fertiliser and chemical pesticides of which copious amounts are used, I read that Potatoes are sprayed anything from 10-18 times before they are harvested.
    post SHTF forget agriculture, it'll be more Horticulture than Agriculture and on small plots, the size of the plot will be determined by the size of one's group or family and how much land that group or family can actually control.
    the average plot for a family of 4 is 300 square yards or 250 square metres , according to the British allotment society this is large enough to supply fruit and veg for the entire year for that size of family. I have grown fruit and veg for the two of us on half plots or less.
     
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The U.K. itself imports food.

    All the farmers of the U.K. can't feed the cities. Cities cannot even feed one-twentieth of their own population. Cities need an umbilical cord to the Heartlands to exist. Cut off the railways and highways and they die. Just turn off a city's electricity and it will die. Cancerous tumors are just like this -- they soak-up nutrients; it's one reason why cancer patients sometimes waste away into skeletons before they die.
     
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  18. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    1. Old Geezer
      For what use, may I ask?
       
      Old Geezer, Sep 17, 2023
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  19. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Just in case.....for water access in certain cases...should I be forced to move....afoot...in this city or another..

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    the UK is 60% self sufficient in food, if we started on January 1st we would run out of food-without imports- on the second week of August. with still 4 months to go/one third of a year /can you imagine the consequences?
     
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  21. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    If there was, say for example pandemic (that actually killed 40% of the population in urban areas - a real one not the trumped up silliness we saw during the earlier Covid outbreak) and rural areas were largely left unscathed we might just get away with it.
     
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  22. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Just cut-off the cities for food. Feed your own selves and let the socialists die.
     
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  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    WTSHTF thats exactly what will happen.
     
    1. Old Geezer
      How horrible, yet true. These days, how unendurable. Good that you are removed from it. I hope it stays that way for you. It won't for us. I know that we will be put upon. I'm getting so crippled that I can only fight from a fixed position. Today, my lower back has been raw torture.
       
      Old Geezer, Sep 19, 2023
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  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    we are so far from the seat of government in the capital it is well known here that in the event of a national catastrophe we will be left to get on with it as best we can, events over the last decade or two have proved this to be correct.
    this will go not only for the South West but other counties too notably those in the North of the country .
    London is very insular and self centred at least from a political point of view.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Here in the States, urbanites look down on we "country bumpkins". Hillary Clinton called us "deplorables". This even though it is the Heartlanders who grow the food, pump the oil, man the military, and dig the coal. These "sophisticated" urbanites should give some thought as to what would happen to them without those who enable their very lives. Post-SHTF, why should we do anything for the cities?! Screw'em -- ta-ta! Let them eat their own sh##!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
       
      Old Geezer, Sep 20, 2023
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  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I would not say that UK Urbanites look down on country people, its more the political elite who are London-centric and everywhere else is "the provinces" and come second to the capital.
    you hardly ever see a politician in the "shires" unless its an election year and then you cant move for "photo opportunities" .
    I remember Hillary Clinton using that term, I thought she was the "deplorable" one for her attitude to voters , if I remember correctly I think she called them " a bunch of deplorables".
     
  26. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Given the circumstances here in the fall of 2023, I'd just write-off urban areas as any place a person would want to be post SHTF. I would include the suburbs adjacent to the cities' business districts. In the Atlanta metro area, crime is soaring 10+ miles out of the center of the city. One has to get way out from Atlanta to begin to hit anything I would call semi-peaceful.

    Coastal cities are almost always the worst, whether it be an ocean, a Great Lake, bay area, or a Gulf Coast town. St. Lois (specifically East St. Louis which is mainly minority occupied), Atlanta, Memphis, and Phoenix are inland, yet dangerous.

    Ybor is a district in Tampa is super place to buy great cigars ... hopefully, you'll make it out with your skin. I've bought cigars in Ybor when in Tampa for convention meetings. Want a dynamite Cuban shirt, Ybor is the place.

    This year's Ybor City's Halloween party went way sideways last night at 3:00 AM. Two crews opened fire on each other, so a pot-load of innocents caught lead and bled. Two folk were killed outright. If you are ever in an American city and the place is mainly minority, get out before the sun sets. This advice is for white people, Asian people, black people, any people. Being black sure doesn't make you safe. Most violent crime in Amerika is black-on-black violence. Good and responsible black folk move out of their neighborhoods when their neighborhoods go sideways. Some, especially the elderly, haven't the means to get out. Joining a branch of the military is one often used mechanism of escaping poverty and sketchy areas.

    Ybor / Tampa is representative of urban area gone 3rd-world.




    One of last evening's victims who died was only 14 years old. One wonders why a 14 yr old is out at three AM.






    This current shooting is nothing rare. Tampa in the past 6 months has seen an ongoing stream of violence:











    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ-Krk0dKak


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wva4aIIx5wQ


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbvhSX2vJ-s
     
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  27. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    It certainly appears that our politicians do not give a monkeys about rural areas. One only has to look at the denigration of our farmers to see evidence of that.

    We put up with sub standard water supplies, sewage systems, internet and phones communications, poor roads etc. But, of course, we pay the same taxes and costs for the services.
     
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  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    our own Politicians are London-centric and think London IS the UK. they have no knowledge of how things are in rural areas, but then so doesent the most of the population-80% of the UK population lives in the cities or large Urban centres, the vast majority have no knowledge of the countryside and this it "Just is" they havent a clue that the countryside is actually managed and if it wasnt it would be overgrown very quickly.
     
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  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Maybe when the elitists find the grocery stores empty due to these unseen farmers no longer sending food products to the cities, they'll start paying attention. Problem is that by then, national matters will have gone so far sideways that the system will be irreparable. Too bad. So sad.
     
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  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    "urban survival" isnt that a contradiction in terms??
    no food coming in= starvation.
     
  31. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Given how far society has devolved and how dependent urbanites and suburbanites have become, I'd say that the people living in such areas are basically doomed during a full-bore SHTF scenario. After what's happened in the past five+ years, I'm including suburbanites.

    Not only are >98% of suburbanites unprepared, their immediate proximity to urban areas also sets them up for both attacks by out-of-control urban packs and even attacks by their own neighbors.

    I remember when hurricane whichever hit Staten Island doing lots of damage and shutting down the electric power, one man being interviewed saying that he'd seen a man he knew from his own neighborhood engaged in active looting. This took the interviewee totally unawares and really bothered him. I heard his voice. He was genuinely shocked. He should not have been shocked. People do not understand people.

    The Israelis attacked just this past month by Hamas and looted by Palestinian civilians were taken totally unawares. They of all people should have been the most prepared and yet they were not even marginally prepared. The military garrison located there was not prepared. The kibbutzim security forces were under-prepared. The civilians were unprepared. This lack of preparedness resulted in murder, looting, rape, and utter devastation to their communities.

    Preppers understand and it's now way past time for those still living in their own fantasy world to learn from the mistakes of those who have perished.

    American urban-dwellers, I wouldn't know what to tell them. I don't want them moving here -- that I do know.
    .
     
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  32. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I couldnt agree more, I agree with every word above.
    Urban people are so reliant on the system that when that system fails so will they.
    the 98% quoted is probably what the mortality rate will be.
     
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  33. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    New York city blackouts occurred in 1959, 1961, 1965 (major, Northeast USA, "The Great Blackout of 1965", 30 million affected), 1977, 2003, 2006, 2012, 2019 (very minor).

    During the Great Blackout of 1965, everyone pulled together. Citizens were seen in the streets directing traffic. There was a full moon that ameliorated the darkness and prevented many traffic accidents. The most significant outcome was a baby-boom 9 months later.

    During the blackout of 1977, chaos was seen along with lots of looting.

    1965 to 1977: During that period, societal cohesion had degraded that much. We all know what would happen here in 2023/2024 were the power cut off to major cities for a protracted period of time.

    The glue has dried-out and cracked. Nothing is left to hold the pieces together.

    upload_2023-10-31_13-1-30.png
     
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  34. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    I well remember the 1977 blackout. I had a newspaper delivery round and it was on the front pages. I could not believe that people would go out and steal if there was a power cut. I have learnt so much since those tender years.
     
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  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I think that was the year we had Scheduled power cuts, something to do with the OPEC oil producing nations, when one area electricity was off another was on, we even had Petrol ration coupons but never had to use them.
     
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  36. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    As for today's definition of urban survival, let's look to the Chicago malignancy.

    Was looking for the body-count for Chicago and INSTANTLY found the following site:

    https://heyjackass.com/

    Warning, in the following video gallery, people getting shot dead is NOT censored. If you are not hard of heart, don't watch.

    https://heyjackass.com/gallery/

    I guess when something is too tragic to think about, some folk will find sport in it. Grim.

    When the Leftist mainstream media talk about "mass-shootings", think about the gang activities on the streets of Chicago.

    The following graphic is from the website https://heyjackass.com/

    upload_2024-5-21_12-25-0.png

    =======================

    As far as the phrase "urban survival post SHTF" goes, I don't believe that such is possible. People aren't surviving in certain neighborhoods of Chicago right now. Any disruption in electricity, food supply, water supply, will result in Chicago becoming an absolute inferno of violence throughout the city and its suburbs. It will be pure savagery and the weak will die-off rather rapidly.
    =================================
     
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  37. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Urban survival is a contradiction in terms. There will not be any survival in modern urban environments. All will die, the weak very quickly and the more vicious at a slightly slower pace.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Pretty much so in the suburbs of large cities. Seems anything that's in anyway bad, their grocery stores and home-repair stores get gutted rapidly. Three days out and stores are utterly empty ... nothing on the shelves at all. People have been seen fighting over toilet paper.
       
      Old Geezer, May 21, 2024
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  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I dont think survival in a city post SHTF is possible, cities will be the place for the dead and the dying.
    especially places like London and Birmingham with their large ethnic populations with different cultures and behaviours.
     
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  40. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    I think we can look at what is happening in New Caledonia to see what a modern breakdown of law and order looks like, and it's not pretty.
     
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